Celebrity Chat with Ernest Cunningham


January 31, 2003

Ernest Cunningham is the author of The The Ultimate Marilyn.


(Danamo) Thank you, Mr. Cunningham, for being here with us tonight.

 (Cunningham) Thank your for inviting me, Dan.

 Connie, who had planned to lead with the Jill in the interview, has been unavoidably delayed, so I will try to ad-lib my way through this. with Jill's help and the other moderators.

(Jill) Happy to help-- I have tons of questions-- hope that is okay Ernest?

Ask away!

Ernest may I have the honor of asking the first question?

By all means!

Okay-- as we all know here you have written a WONDERFUL book on MM called THE ULTIMATE MARILYN - a reference book to dates, events and people in MM's life-- Now my question is.... when did you first become interested in Marilyn? Were you interested in Marilyn your whole life? Or is this a recent interest for you?

I was born in 1938, and began going to the movies at an early age. We had no money, but it was simple enough to walk around and collect coke bottles and then take them to claim the deposits. Movie admission was twelve cents, popcorn was ten cents -- which called for a total of eleven bottles from which to claim the deposits. So I went to the movies often. When I look at lists of movies today, the names that are recognizable always begin around 1949, when I was eleven years old.

So, Marilyn made ""Asphalt Jungle"" in 1949. And there was at this time an enormous amount of publicity about her: small stories in the fan magazines, photos in the girlie magazines, stories in the gossip columns. I was fascinated by the whole movie world, and especially by Marilyn, beccause she was so provocative, and getting so much attention. I had stacks of magazines that I jealously guarded (and wish I had them now!)

Jumping ahead many years, when I was living in New York City, I was still buying movie magazines, but was now also buying movie books. I thought of being a screenwriter. I reached a point when I had too many books (I had a closet full of duplicates), and so started advertising in the small movie buff magazines, and mailing out lists. And . . . Marilyn was the main focus of the lists. I became protective of Marilyn.

Yes! So your interest began at a young age, and grew?

(Amy) What do you mean by protective?

Yes, protective how? It's funny how Marilyn seems to make everyone feel protective of her in various ways. Did you find you felt this way when writing a book on her?

Okay, so now I'm living in New York, totally movie crazy, trying to get into the industry. The thought that haunts me is that I was in New York at the same time Marilyn was. You saw celebrities on the street all the time, but I never saw Marilyn. At the time she died, I was a copywriter for a discount department store (E. J. Korvettes), which had terrible working conditions -- they spied on you to make sure you weren't goofing off. I had an electric typewriter. I would sit at my desk all day, typing away -- ""look how busy Ernest is!"" -- but here's the plan: when I finished typing an ad for refrigerators or carpeting, I would put another piece of paper in the typewriter and work on one of my screenplays or short stories or whatever and no one suspected a thing. ------- Comes that awful Monday morning, I get off the subway and there are all the newspapers with dead Marilyn on them. So I sat down at my typewriter and wrote a story about Marilyn -- basically about how she was killed by indifference and thoughtlessness.

Answering your question: Yes, I felt/feel very protective of Marilyn. Which makes me so angry that there's so much BS out there about her.

What would you consider the worst of the BS?

AND (to add to Danamo's question) do you think Marilyn added to the perpetuation of the BS by not being upfront with her own history?

The fact that Marilyn the woman and the actress is being lost -- she's becoming Marilyn the Conspiracy Theory.

Well put!

Yes, there are entire groups dedicated to hashing over how she died.

LOL! Yes, we have one going right now!

How do you mean -- that she wasn't upfront with her own history?

OH that she never told 100% truths to her life story-- about where she came from, how she was raised, etc... Do you think that gave other authors over the years the liberty to write anything they pleased?

(We are having technical difficulties. Ernest has lost his internet connection.)

Hang on Ernest will be right back. I am on the phone with him now-- some internet problems... Worse case I will relay his answers. He is trying to get back on-- If it doesn't work he will call me back and I will be his Liason

(Amy) This makes me want to buy his book.

His BOOK IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GOOD!!!!!!! I seriously use it EVERYDAY!

(Marie) It's a great book

(Hannah) I'm sure everyone will wait. I know I will!

Well he has great taste choosing the Marilyn in the Gold Lame for the cover picturer

(Karen) He writes so well and from the heart

That is so true and he really is very protective over marilyn- A nicer guy you could not meet!

(Cheryl) Does he have a new book coming out?

I am working with Ernest on a book about marilyn Remembered right now. It will be a book about the history of MR and much, much more.

I think his own biog would be a great read

The way he writes...its how people speak...you can HEAR him

Just as an FYI Ernest has written many books-- he has a book called THE ULTIMATE BOGART and THE ULTIMATE BARBARA

Barbara?

Barbra Streiesand. They are all REALLY GREAT!

The Ultimate Bogart too

THAT ONE IS AMAZING! So rare photos... etc

(Laura) I have his ultimate bogart..it is great. it makes me want ultimate mm too

All on www.amazon.com. But his ULTIMATE MARILYN is a godsend to me... it has ALL the details of everything you want to know about MM

I am always going to UM to look up stuff....my bible. LOL

ERNEST IS ASKING THAT I BE HIS LIASON-- Let the questions begin..... (he couldn't log back on)

Ok, I will put the room back in moderation mode now...

So go ahead........ ask away

How long did it take you to compile all your information for 'Ultimate Marilyn?'

I'd like to know when he started to compile all his info on MM.....beat me to it Dan!!

(Jill relaying Ernest via telephone) A deceptive question because I had been collecting MM stuff (Clippings etc.) since I was a kid (Age 11) so when it came time to put together the book I had most of the stuff I needed in the files I maintained.... If I had to start a book from scratch it would have taken me at least a year or two-- But...I had all the stuff right here so it only took about 3 months total.

Wow, pretty amazing!

I am working on other MM projects.

I am working on a Marilyn Remembered book and guide with Jill. The guide will be a guide to MM memorabilia. The next project is called OUR MARILYN an informal history to the Marilyn Remembered Fan Club. And the last one is called MARILYN MONROE AND ALL THE OTHER BLONDES IN THE WORLD; An Illustrated Guide to the actresses who have protrayed Marilyn Monroe.

Estimated completion date?

Completetion date for the GUIDE is about a month away.

and the others?

The last one is projected in less than a year. The MR Book is a on going project.

In UM you write about Marilyn being a model for Tinkerbell for the Disney cartoon feature, Peter Pan. Can you tell us more about that?

Tinkerbell has since been proven wrong. At the time we thought it true-- but then the real woman appeared with documentations and photographs AND she even has photos of herself with Marilyn!

(Lucy) It's not your fault...that story was going around for years.......

Yes, and if that woman hadn't come forward we'd still be thinking this.

Was that woman Margaret Kerry?

Margaret Kerry for Tinkerbell? Yes, I think so

The playboy cartoon LITTLE ANNIE FANNIE (Marilyn A-Z lists Tinkerbell as being based on MM)

Yes, so does the MM Encyclopedia, I know.

Well I spoke to Hugh Hefner and he said it is NOT based on Marilyn at all. So Marilyn was never in mind for that cartoon character.

Ok, thank you, Ernest!!!

The information that you compiled in your book The Ultimate Marilyn is really a must read for everyone that wants to know and learn about Marilyn and her life.

Thank you lucy!

You're welcome sir.

I believe Tony had some questions?

(Tony) Can you tell us who Photofest is? Most of the pictures in your book are referenced to them.

Photofest is a photo archieve in New York City that is rapidly becoming one the most important sources and if you look at current magazines or tabloid TV shows PHOTOFEST is the main supplier The kicker-- is.. that the guys who own photo fest are friends of mine so I was able to get a very good price.

Well they sure have some quality pictures.

Oh yes, abosulutely. A long time ago the photos were used to advertise movies, but then thrown away. At some point along the way people started collecting them and selling them and these two guys got them cheaply. And now they have a very expensive collection.

It must be nice to own the rights to those pictures. Who would you say helped you the most compiling the info for your book?

(Ernest has restored his internet connection to the chat room now. Thanks, Jill for relaying his answers to us by phone during the interruption)

(Chat room sounds... *APPLAUSE*)

Ernest is on line will take him a second to respond to your question Tony..

No problem whatsoever.

I have file cabinets full of newspaper and magazine clippings -- and once had many more. Most of the Ultimate Marilyn was written with reference materials from my own collection. If I hadn't had this reference material, it would have taken me much more time to compile my book. I also have most of the Marilyn books, so I was able to consult them without going to library.

So basically you did all the work yourself! WOW! Impressive!

Next question?

Since there are so many books on Marilyn, how is yours doing in the sales department? (Question David wanted to ask, but he couldn't be here tonight)

Do you have most of the newspapers from the week of Aug. 5th?

2nd question first: I had all of the New York newspapers from the week of August 5th, but sold them long ago. First off, I needed the money. But secondly, newspapers have a built-in destruct factor.

Well, the reason I ask is the only newspaper we ever see from then is Aug. 5th. I always wondered just how much newspaper coverage there was that week.

As far as sales, I am very pleased with the book's progress. I received a $5000 advance for the book, and was told that that would no doubt be it -- to be happy with the $5000. But the book sells steadily, and I get about $600 a year in royalties. On the other hand, the Streisand and Bogart books will soon be remaindered/discounted, and I never got another penny for them beyond the first payment. I think this will make it easier for me to sell my next Marilyn books.

I liked the Foreword you have in the front of your book....rescuing Marilyn from the conspiracy industry and restoring her humanity....I think that's good since she gives us so much enjoyment.

Thank you, Lucy -- that's my main cause, restoring the woman's humanity. It may be a losing fight.

Back to the week of MM's death -- there was newspaper coverage for the whole week. The News and the Post and the Mirror and some of the others (NYC had seven papers at that time) all ran follow-up stories the whole week. One paper had a week-long biography by, I think, Zolotow, and another paper had a week-long Carpozi bio. If you haven't found any of these papers, it could mean that they've self- destructed. I sold the ones I had, by the way, because they were disintegrating before my eyes.

I wish there was an archive where we could read all of those papers.

I am sure there are Archives in Libraries for those news papers.. perhaps compiling into a book would be another wonderful project!

May I ask you what your favorite Marilyn film is and why?

My favorite Marilyn movie is ""Blondes,"" because it's all hers. ""Some Like it Hot"" is more of a Jack Lemmon/Tony Curtis project.

AHHHH me too! I love that one! And you are so right-- it IS all hers!

Yes, she is THE BLONDE, after all :-)

Ernest, you met BeBe Goddard? Marilyn's foster sister...

Yes, I had dealings with Bebe Goddard over a period of time. It's a sad story. Everyone always liked Bebe when they first met her, but quickly became disillusioned.

Disillusioned?

Can you elaborate for us? I am always confused when it comes to BEBE

Her smoking was maddening: she was coughing her brains out, surely dying, but furiously maintaing that it was the bad air of Burbank that was killing her. She would call me, screaming that she couldn't breathe, that I should rush . . . . but what she wanted was for me to disconnect her oxygen tank so she could smoke. And then there's this awful situation about all that stuff being sold on the internet.

Yes, so many thing seems to attributed to BEBE Goddard that were being sold on the net... things with ""letters"" from BeBe even after she died.. were they authentic? I was never sure...

""Disillusioned"" is the kindest word when dealing with Bebe. When the Marilyn Remembered Club puts out its ""Collecting Marilyn"" booklet that Jill and I are shepherding, you should get a better idea of what we're fighting, and of what Bebe was up to. Thank you for noticing the letters written after Bebe's death.

Since you are writing a collectibles book: What do you think is the Ultimate MM collectible besides something she owned?

""The Ultimate Collectible""? I'd have to think about it. Who has suggestions?

Mr. Cunningham, you said Bebe would call you. How did you two become friends?

All of my Marilyn friends and contacts were made through the Marilyn Remembered Fan Club. Bebe was a regular for a long time: she would show up and stay long enough to correct or denouce someone, then stand in Greg's front yard, smoking. Evelyn Moriarty (MM's standin) was a regular (she's in the Motion Picture Hospital now. Alex D'Arcy (of ""Millionaire"") was a regular. And so on. What I should have said up front was that I was greatly aided in my Marilyn book by being able to sit down and talk to these people who knew or worked with Marilyn.

I thank everyone who appreciates my book, but I want to gently chide certain club members who don't read books on Marilyn, or don't read the right ones. There are too many Marilyn fans who don't question the nonsense perpetuated by TV documentaries and supermarket tabloids.

IT'S BEEN FUN -- THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME!

Well, thank you VERY MUCH Mr. Cunningham, for being our guest! It has been a great pleasure.


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